O'Reilly Battles Rumsfeld Over Iraq

Rumsfeld on Obama's handling of Libya, Iran, Afghanistan

O'Reilly and Rumsfeld debate Iraq war

This is a RUSH transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," March 3, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight: Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has a new book out called, "Known and Unknown: A Memoir." It's doing very well, achieving best-seller status almost immediately upon release.

But, the book is also controversial because Mr. Rumsfeld backs away a bit from the Iraq war policy. As you may know, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Mr. Rumsfeld are considered the architects of what happened in Iraq.

With us now is Donald Rumsfeld. All right, we are going to get to Iraq. I've got two segments with you. So we'll get to that, but I've got to get to Libya first. Qaddafi, all right, he's got enough cash to hire the thugs to keep him in office. He lost most of the country. President Obama is pretty much playing it from a distance. What should the president do that he isn't doing?

DONALD RUMSFELD, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I was President Reagan's Middle East envoy and spent a lot of time in that part of the world, and I think it would be a very good thing for the people of Libya and for the people of the region if Qaddafi left.

O'REILLY: Everybody knows that.

RUMSFELD: And what do you do about that?

O'REILLY: Yes, how do you facilitate it?

RUMSFELD: You do -- you do a range of things. You've got choices. You have choices of overt action and covert action. We don't know if there…

O'REILLY: We assume there is covert action going on.

RUMSFELD: I don't assume that.

O'REILLY: You don't assume that? See, I do.

RUMSFELD: I just don't know.

O'REILLY: Because I think, I think you've got Leon Panetta, the CIA chief, a good man. I think he is helping the rebels and they're helping the rebels to the extent they can.

RUMSFELD: I hope so.

O'REILLY: So I -- I'm assume that's happening.

RUMSFELD: Then you have got public diplomacy, what you say publicly.

O'REILLY: Right.

RUMSFELD: And people hear that…

O'REILLY: Right.

RUMSFELD: …and that can have an effect. But you also have private diplomacy, and we don't know what he's saying.

O'REILLY: That's true. But again, Hillary Clinton and the State Department have been pretty aggressive. But look, we've got warships going there. If you were the secretary of Defense now, would you recommend that we take, you know, put people in there to protect the rebels or protect the humanitarian people who are leaving? Should we have some more boots on the ground there? Should we do some air power stuff?

RUMSFELD: I listened to Secretary Gates, the secretary of Defense, and agreed with him that it's a lot more complicated…

O'REILLY: OK, so you would…

RUMSFELD: …than it looks.

O'REILLY: So you're agreeing with President Obama's…

RUMSFELD: Well, no. I would get in position so you could be able to do something.

O'REILLY: All right. So you would have warships there as a message.

RUMSFELD: And be prepared to do something depending on what took place. But I think people who are suggesting that it's easy…

O'REILLY: Nobody is suggesting that, Mr. Secretary, with all due respect. Would you shoot Libyan planes out of the air? And a no-fly zone.

RUMSFELD: It depends on what they were doing. I -- I don't know that you should put in a no-fly zone at the moment. I don't know what -- what the aircraft are doing and what the Libyan aircraft are doing.

O'REILLY: Well, you know we have reports from the correspondents on the ground the Libyan air force is bombing civilians, you know, keeping Qaddafi in power. So if that's the case…

RUMSFELD: If you had a no-fly zone, then you obviously…

O'REILLY: Yes, you could shoot them out of the air. Would you do that? Would you recommend that?

RUMSFELD: If you have no-fly zone, that's what you'd be there for.

O'REILLY: But do you want one? Do you think it…

RUMSFELD: No. I think -- I think, they ought to do the other things and be prepared to do that and see what happens.

O'REILLY: But not do it yet?

RUMSFELD: Yes.